Eldar Serious Flaw!
I also have been looking into your Harlequin army. The longest ranged weapon you have on the table is the Eldar Missile launcher. If I am mistaken, excuse me, but isn't this a serious flaw? Couldn't potentially an opponent keep all of their forces on their side of the table, and blast you with long range weaponry? Since they can't shoot the harlequins, can't hurt the rangers, wouldn't they just target the wraithlords? When its annihilation all they have to do is win by one kill point, so even if they spend the whole game downing a single wraithlord, they would still win. Just concerned about this possibility when bringing the army to a tournament, where guard are now likely opponents.
Reply Out:
You are correct with your observation if I set up on the table, but I have Eldrad and a few other tricks in the works. Annihilation is my best mission for this army. Again, you are correct that you can’t target the harlies until you get close, the rangers get the 3+ in cover and if they get hit bad will go to ground for the 2+. The WL’s are the weak unit since anything with range will punch through their armor save and T8 isn’t going to help against lascannons and railcannons- C’Tan feel my pain.
That said, I reserve everything and then when the WL’s come on I use terrain and Eldrad fortune to get them cover saves + the re-roll which with the multiple wounds on each model and immuned to instant kills keep them around a bit.
-Fritz
Reply Out:
You are correct with your observation if I set up on the table, but I have Eldrad and a few other tricks in the works. Annihilation is my best mission for this army. Again, you are correct that you can’t target the harlies until you get close, the rangers get the 3+ in cover and if they get hit bad will go to ground for the 2+. The WL’s are the weak unit since anything with range will punch through their armor save and T8 isn’t going to help against lascannons and railcannons- C’Tan feel my pain.
That said, I reserve everything and then when the WL’s come on I use terrain and Eldrad fortune to get them cover saves + the re-roll which with the multiple wounds on each model and immuned to instant kills keep them around a bit.
-Fritz
11 comments:
Still leaves a question. If you are on one side and everything there is to kill is on the other, how do you get there if they have no reason to come to you?
Just curious if you have some interesting ways to handle this, especially since you zip around the board ten laps a game normally:)
generally anything that can hit the wraithlords can be hit by the wraithlords (if only with the eml) so it becomes a question of how numerous their 40"+ weapons are and whether they can knock down a fortuned wraithlord before losing a rhino or some such.
a better way to phrase the question might be 'if the other guy gets ahead on kill points from a lucky turn and then runs for the far corner, how do you react to his attempt to kite you out of cover'?
but the answer to that is probably largely, dont lose KPs that early ;)
We've been discussing your army over the last few posts on my little blog, and there were even a few shots at making a list using the same restrictions you did. We didn't improve on it; we found it wasn't easy to build a list around three units of Harlequins.
I understand where the E-mailer is coming coming from, but frankly anyway sitting back and concentrating on the Wraithlords is asking for trouble from the Harlequins. Analyzing a game based on one unit usually misses the point - especially with Eldar who, imho, rely on synergy more than any other army.
Just a thought.
There aint a lot of armies that can hang back at 48 inches. Only Tau and Imperial Guard. MArines dont have a punch on this range only some las cannons wont win the game. Against the IMps you can get into real trouble thats true but depending on your deployment it takes only 1-2 turns to get into the middle of the table and there is no place to hang back anymore.
I think the army is much weaker against fearless armies who wont ever go to ground getting at least one round of rappid fire on your quins what can hurt a lot. THough you can maybe get a re-rollable cover save on em. Its a very hard army to play thats a fact you need to ecactly know what you want to do with it.
Since I was the one who emailed him this. I feel as though I've got a right to respond. There is absolutely no way for this army to go up against any army that is packing 9+ heavy weapons. Sahneyyogurt, to get to the middle of the board the wraith lords wiill have to go out of cover. Once that happens all the lascannons will be aiming directly at them. Once they get to the middle of the board the transports will roll up, open fire, dead harlequins. The entire point of his army is not to march across the board and attack, but to force the opponent to come to him. T8, rerollable 2+ coversaves, and veil of tears discourage sitting back and shooting (even though that's the easiest way to beat it). That way, the wraithlords can slow the opponent down by popping transports, pinning etc. Also, the army you describe as being hard to hurt with this army is the exact opposite. Orcs, need to get close. Plague marines, need to get close. Daemons (I don't know much about em tbh) I believe need to get close. I personally love the army and believe that one thing that fritz may not have explored fully is the use of hit and run to sweep across the table lightening fast. I just wish they'd release an official codex for the clowns.
If you deploy 12 inches from your edge in the middle of a 48/72 table what is standard over here in germany you have pretty much 36 on everything on the table. That was what I meant. Having cover is still key.
I wouldnt know how to play this army right its the cover to get for montstrous creatures that would be nearly impossible on the tables i play on. There is nearly nothing that hides the lords well enough. Imagin a imperial guard army using vendettas all over. S9 no cover saves since they can shoot from all kind of angles and as soon as they have finished the lords they get in to strike with there loadout from close range using flamers. And even a rerollable 5+ isnt great against 2 or more flamers per squad. But as I said that is a very rare army.
You are right about fearless armies needing to come close havent seen that conjunction. I'm not very experienced so I often do not see the essentials.
With a rerollable 4+ on the lords and 9+ lascannons on the field( a lot imo not many take so much of them in 1750P) 6 of nine hit and maybe 4-5 wound so he may fail 1-2 saves in the first round. He shoots back kicking 1-3 of the cannons(3 in case of 3 las cannons on one tank for example). In 3 rounds he still stands I guess while only 1/3 of the long range weaponary is still left. And in an earlier post Fritz describes how he avoids that his enemy is out of 36"". Its a scenario that most likely wont happen against his army since most ppl will want to get close. You want rangers in cc and you want to break veil of tears. What is it worth hanging back? If you got light tanks(12max armour) he will explode them and earns killpoints while you can get a max of 3 for the lords. If you dont bring a specialized army just to kick Fritz you wont be able to do this hanging back with heavy weapons. His rangers can infiltrate what could be a way to get you closer aswell though path finders would be better here. Too bad he aint got the points. In mission objective you would have to get to him anyways what would you do than?
Not saying that you aint right just saying that it is a very rare scenario that most likely wont ever happen.
Rethinking:
Now he has Eldrad so he deployes 3-5 units last no matter what. His rangers are infiltrators so they are deployed last aswell. On a 48/72 Inches board with 12 inches from the side in worst case(all other scenarios allow you closer to the table middle) how will you be able to deploy more than 36 inches away?
Devastators and alike can be pinned by the lords or rangers, tanks can get a destroyed. Rangers would deploy close enoguh to pin your heavy weapons, and lords and eldard might redploy close enough to shot all they got at your tanks. Most likely you wont get out top in this scenario. So unless you got Vendetta spam you wont be able to hang back. And Vendettas can easily produce 3 killpoints if shot at by 3 rocket launchers with BS 4.
"He shoots back kicking 1-3 of the cannons"
I think you are over estimating a wraith lord's fire power. On average it takes about twelve shots from a bright lance to pop AV 14. Th missiles can only immobilize it. Devistators will be especially hard for this army. LD 9 will prevent pinning, and anti tank guns will do all most nothing to devs who are in cover.
Also you're also assuming that the opponent is completely ignoring cover. I still believe, once you get to the middle of the table, transports will roll up, rapid fire, and your 21 point harles will be gone. This can be done because as you said 1-2 wounds on the wrathlord per turn means that 1-2 wrathlords will be dead by turn three.
Well, the first thing to remember that this is a "concept" army built with the fact that I wanted to play the maximum 30X harlies on the table- that was the core build of it, not winning tournaments, dealing with mech, etc. Around the 30 harlies I then needed to pack in troops and some anti-tank.
That said, there is a lot of finesse to this army and it often takes guys by surprise. Transports really don't roll up to me since I time their distance and make sure I can hit them first with fusion pistols/shreiker cannon and then assault. Land raiders I pretty much ignore and wait for fusion pistol range.
If you are rapid firing my harlies then I am in range to assault you and make you go poof! The skillz here are to see who gets the drop on who.
The only thing that really kills this army is spammed dreads and dreads in drop pods- once in the assault my clowns have no way of killing them.
and....what about your 3 lords against those dreads? And dont you have armor piercing so you have in the assault S4+ D6 +D3 what is =13 at best ok that is something to be rolled but it can be rolled...
Ahh Fritz you can do it! Pull out the clowns finally.
And furhtermore you melta the dreads 1. I feel like your tricking on me Fritz ....
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