Saim-Hann Warhost: Version 3
Playing an elite army of jetbikes means I’m already overpriced on my units and with expensive but necessary upgrades to my transports there is even less to work with. So, what I’ve decided to do is focus more on survivability over shooty. Cats already can’t stop my wave serpents and vypers so what if I pile it on even higher? Check out this pic from a recent tourney where my wave serpent and fire prism were catching las, krak missile, and melta spam shrugging off multiple hits with cover saves till turn seven.
Which now brings me to my seer council… Even my council seems to be a bit less effective these day with their over the top kill potential. If I hit a squad with doom and destructor followed by witchblade assault the unit dies, I don’t care if it is assault terminators to ranks of genestealers- but what have I really gained? Killing a single unit really isn’t that much either. The other issue I have with my council is that to use them I have to get really close with the template, which means I’m not back at range which is how jetbike Eldar work the best. Something I thought I would never say, but dropping the council gets me a ton of points back. I know the popular idea on the internets is that you need a council to be effective, and I agree 100% that they are a killer units, but I’m feeling like my tactics are evolving to a new level beyond the fist and second build incarnation of my warhost. I fell like I’m going almost ethereal where speed and survivability out trump everything else.
Fritz, what are you trying to say here?
I’m evolving my list to yet another level of play, and just in time since cats at the club know what I do, and beyond to the internets… It’s time for the next level when I’m randomly running into guys at tournaments who I have never met and they know me, my army, and what I’m going to do…
I’ve got to wargame out my new list, but I’ll have a first version and some general ideas up for you guys in a bit…
11 comments:
frtiz why dont you try out a 3 prism build killing anytthing that looks at you wrong lol thats what im working with in ard'boyz posting battle report so can see how it goes
Ever thought of using Falcons loaded with 5 Dire Avangers to make them scoring? Gametesting them really changed my list completely as it not only solved the problem of keeping the fragile Eldar troops alive, but also performed great on the battlefield. Give ´em a try; as someone who has his head deep into tactical consinderations, they won´t disappoint you...
I'm actually sort of surprised you haven't gone to multiple fire prisms yet. The threat of a twin linked strength 10 ap 1 blast coming from one of two (or three?) locations seems like a tactic you could really get behind. You could even give it a cool name like "phantom menace" or something...haha.
But I have recently tried in friendly games to win through outright violence, and I've only pulled it off with supreme luck, otherwise my warhost disintegrates.
What I have found with the three prims is that they are easy to stop- you only have to stun or weapon destroy them. Also, always being outnumbered by every other army- and getting worse and worse with each release of a new GW codex means my skimmers need to always be moving to get cover saves, which means no firing. Eldar use to have the most firepower but no more. I'm not saying three prisms can't be bad ass, but for my style of play I won't gain much. I've got an upcoming game- without my opponent knowing, that I am going to try and "win" without firing a single shot to prove my point and tactics- obviously it can't be a kill point mission.
Fritz, be careful, you can do this only in a friendly game. I have done it before in 1250p brackets against Death Guard and won by 3:0 objectives end of turn 5, but my opponent was really pissed. If he wouldn´t have been a good friend of mine, he would have hit me hard, I guess ;-) I had run 3 DAVU Falcons and 2 Serpents (FD and Banshees+DoomSeer), starting from reserves and spent the rest of the time flying across the board, only killing a single unit. Some tankshocking, some ramming and a little shooting from the skimmers is all that happend in my turn and nearly no real targets offered to my opponent in his turn, what can be really annoying for him. It´s quite effective to play that way, but you won´t get a high sportsmanship rating acting this way...
Hi Fritz and Friends,
Has anyone tried to play a 40k game on Vassal yet? It will allow you to play a very,very close approximation to a live board game. The nice thing is that you can play test with any army, with any models. Its all there, and free. (The guys who built it need our financial support - they pay for the development and servers.
Go to www.vassal40k.com for more..
While I completely understand the idea and desire to exchange the average 500pt investment in a Seer Council into more models and firepower, I wonder if the loss of the Seer Council is worth the additional firepower. The Seer Council’s value is not in its destructive value; its value is its immense ability to distract your opponents. A Seer Council is dangerous and it is deadly, however, I have found its greatest strength to be its ability to completely un-nerve and distract your opponent to the point they redirect their game plan to deal with it. Even when shot at by a completely insane amount of firepower, the unit can survive and continue to distract your opponents; therein to me lies their value.
I can think of no other unit in an elder codex with the speed and survivability of the Seer Council ---- Not to mention their ability to frighten opponents.
hey fritz
my buddy got me into eldar
he runs what your talking about
with an army that doesnt shoot a single shot
he runs eldrad
and yeirl
and a troop of avengers with the stormshield
in a wave serphant with all the engine dodads and a brightlance
and his remaining points on stormguardian with flamers and a warlock with destructor(also in a wave serphant like the avengers)
he insists yeril is dire to the list with his power weapon and templete attack but thats your call
Watching your Fritz Warhammer 40K Tactics: Army Plans on youtube again, something came to my mind. Analysing my Eldar and Chaos armies, I noticed that I don´t have real attack units. This works very well for me, as my cc- and firepower is splitted all around the army and so offering no "main target" to my opponent. Attack units, like your seer council, are always very expensive pointwise, therefor dropping these units opens up a lot of new possibilities to add, enhancing the defensive and support parts. In the new 5th edition environment, I think that a defined attack unit isn´t nessessary, ´cause contesting and claiming objectives is what the game is about in 2/3 of the missions, tacticaly covered by defensive and support units. So what do you think guys, does an army need to have some hard-hitters to be effective?
I don't think an army needs it, but I use such a unit (seer council) as a distraction to keep my opponent busy so the rest of my forces have a little more room to operate. That said, at least in my gaming circle and local tourneys they are working less and less as dudes try and counter what I do. That has me rethinking my list a bit.
Fritz, I almost fell bad for you. If you stopped posting all this stuff for the people who use it as a guides for playing, not just trying to actualy kill you. I agree with what you are doing, I believe we are on the same side of thinking. With out the seer council you could run that 2 far seer list that I think looks very good. You could take out kill points by combining you vipers into squads of 3, now that you plan on them surviving for ever. You could max out your jet bikes, add warlocks to them, the posibilities are endless!!!! I see you posting a video in the near feature with a totaly crazy army that has nothing in the opponents eyes, and pull off some more saim hann W's. You can do it, I know you can.
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