Rolling out for 5th edition it looks like only the “troops” selection of units are going to count as scoring units. On the plus side they are a scoring unit as long as they are not falling back and can capture objectives- no more below 50% not a scoring unit as in 4th. On the really down side 2 of the 3 missions for 5th go with who has the most scoring units. Those with elite, fast or heavy support heavy armies are screwed. It seems the GW envisions your elites, fast, or heavies surging forward while your troops capture objectives. How is this going to effect your current army? Are you going to have to go out and buy yet more models? Let’s take a look at my Saim-Hann army with its current roster of models and my Death Guard army as an alternative adapting them to 5th edition.
Saim-Hann 1750 Points
HQ: (1) Jetbike Farseer
Troops: (6) 3 Jetbike Guardian Units
Troops: (2) 10 Guardian Squads
Fast: (3) 2 Vyper Groups
Heavy (1) Fire Prism
Heavy (1) Falcon
With my Saim-Hann I now have 8 scoring units which I will hold back hiding them while my fast and heavies move out to attack and destroy my opponent’s scoring units. Last turn I’ll turbo boost all my jetbikes to capture objectives.
Death Guard 1750
HQ: 1 Daemon Prince
Troops: (4) 10 Death Guard Squads W/ Rhino
Elite: (1) Dreadnought
Heavy (1) Obliterator
Heavy (1) Obliterator
With my Death Guard list I only have four scoring units and I’m not going to be able to hold them back and surge at the last moment. They are going to have to get in the action and might get taken out. How would a smaller more elite army like this fare against an Imperial Guard, Ork, or Tyranid swarm army?
While skimmers are going to take a big hit in 5th, the ability to take lots of small jetbike units as scoring is huge and beyond offsetting the skimmer loss I’m starting to feel like Saim-Hann Eldar are going to be even more powerful.
Thoughts?
Saim-Hann 1750 Points
HQ: (1) Jetbike Farseer
Troops: (6) 3 Jetbike Guardian Units
Troops: (2) 10 Guardian Squads
Fast: (3) 2 Vyper Groups
Heavy (1) Fire Prism
Heavy (1) Falcon
With my Saim-Hann I now have 8 scoring units which I will hold back hiding them while my fast and heavies move out to attack and destroy my opponent’s scoring units. Last turn I’ll turbo boost all my jetbikes to capture objectives.
Death Guard 1750
HQ: 1 Daemon Prince
Troops: (4) 10 Death Guard Squads W/ Rhino
Elite: (1) Dreadnought
Heavy (1) Obliterator
Heavy (1) Obliterator
With my Death Guard list I only have four scoring units and I’m not going to be able to hold them back and surge at the last moment. They are going to have to get in the action and might get taken out. How would a smaller more elite army like this fare against an Imperial Guard, Ork, or Tyranid swarm army?
While skimmers are going to take a big hit in 5th, the ability to take lots of small jetbike units as scoring is huge and beyond offsetting the skimmer loss I’m starting to feel like Saim-Hann Eldar are going to be even more powerful.
Thoughts?
8 comments:
Won't the Max be 6 units to take objectives?- not sure how the 1750 list of Saim Hann could have 8.
Rumors still, but I have heard there won’t be a FO chart, but yes, if there is then I would double up on some of my jetbike squads for 6 in total to score.
Wow, That could make this game more interesting.
I’ve been thinking about this myself, I can see it easily making up for the downgrade on the skimmer rules (though, having read some peoples application of the maths, apparently the 4+ save for skimmers isn’t much worse). Jetbike squads are already a very solid choice with their Shuricannons and 3+ saves, and this will just increase the amount of them we see. It also improves the effectiveness of Wave Serpent mounted Dire Avengers (lucky, as I own some!).
On the other hand my other army, Imperial Guard, are going to suffer. I tend to play with an old fashioned gun line approach with a lot of heavy weapon equipped footslogging infantry. For deepstrike or mechanised armies the new scoring rules are less of a problem, but I can see myself needing to load up on more armoured fist squads, or start pooling my heavy weapons into platoons to allow my squads to move and take objectives without sacrificing firepower. Still, everyone will adapt!
I just fail to see the logic that stormtroopers, terminators or banshees etc. are less able to hold/claim an objective than gaurdsmen, marines or guardians. I’ll look forward to seeing how they explain it…
I'm already getting used to the 2 main components in my Saim Hann army, Jetbikes and Dire Avengers in Wave Serpents... other slots are variables depending the the army I'm going against. Bladestorm and Jetbike hit and run are my favorite tactics so far. I'll use anything from Dragons in Falcons to Spiders for surprise attacks but the troops choice are always those.
Then again, mission rules might even change in the new edition and it may not be even capturing objectives all the time.
One thing I think you have over looked is the forced Draw. In the case of a draw it goes to victory points.
Take for example the mission where both armies pick a spot on the edge of their deployment zone. It is now an attack and defend game. I don;t care what you think putting 50 conscripts on a back board objective with a commisar yarrick is a difficult thing to dislodge.
Also it shoudl be mentioned if you wipe out your opponent you win. So taking no troops and a lot of very powerful units might be a strong strategy too.
I'm just pointing out that winning objectives might not be the best way to win many of the games and thus might not be the key to army design. Especially when one out of three games penalize a lot of small units. This balances armies like dark angels ravenwing combat squads.
Just some food for thought...
I'm still trying to figure out how I'm going to be effective with a pure Deathwing force. Sure, I'll have 5 scoring units but each unit is only 5 men strong... and not the most mobile once they hit the table top. Granted they can take a beating, but only for so long, especially with the possibility of the maximum outnumbered hits (in HtH) being lifted. If I get swamped, I'm dead.
Ron, this is kind of what I am feeling. It seems like if you are playing a small "elite" force like Deathwing, pure Death Guard, etc. you are in trouble. Your scoring units are going to have to engage your opponent and try to bring down his scoring units- potentially taking losses as you do so.
It looks like I'm splitting my list 1/2 non scoring units to attack my opponent's scoring units with my vypers, falcons, etc. and my jetbikes for scoring.
Defl0- as for the third mission if troop slots only count as "1" point and elites/heavy 2 an elite army will still suffer more.
Things are going to be interesting.
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